Dan Roberge:
Today we're going to be talking about energy savings, part of our energy saving series. Check out our podcast with Neil Horn from Gold Leaf Energy.
Welcome, Neil. It's good to talk to you again. And, you know, as we get started with our energy series, podcast here, which is what we're going to do, we're going to cover a bunch of solutions that are good for energy savings. Maybe first, you could introduce yourself, who you are, what your background is, and how you came to be an expert in this particular area.
Neil Horne:
Well, sure, Dan., well first, great to be on with you and great to spend some more time with you., I guess a good way to start is Gold Leaf Energy Systems was really an idea that my wife and I had about 14 years ago when we decided, hey, it's time to move to a smaller community in Ontario.
And what else do we want to do with our lives? And part of that was we want to be entrepreneurs, we want to have a company and well, what do we want that company to do? And so you start to get into writing your checklist of what things would really excite you.
And one of the things that we really coalesced around was we want to do something that sort of helps the world. We didn't want to produce plastic bags. We wanted to do well by doing right. And so we tried to look for what is something we could offer the world.
And originally, we settled on Gold Leaf was actually, a distributor for electrical energy solutions. And so we bought technology from the States., it was a company out of Nashville. And we tried that for a while, and we had a few contracts. But we found some of those solutions were a bit almost behind the times and people had already sort of moved on.
And so we gradually, as you do with your business is you keep adapting and you keep evolving and really managed to find, that our idea of what we wanted was more of,a less invasive solution,in everything we offered and something that was long lasting. And so we kept looking for products and partners that would help us deliver energy savings, but also bottom line solutions to companies.
And so that's where we have adapted Gold Leaf Energy solutions and systems to deliver bottom line savings on water, gas and electricity.
Dan Roberge:
Yeah, and it's very pertinent because obviously,energy is the main topic on everybody's mind. Where you get it from, how you save it. And, I've come to know your products and, definitely when you say noninvasive, I think that's one of the biggest pluses of this first product we're going to talk about, which, I think right away will get you some savings.
But you don't have to change any major component of your systems in order to get those savings. And I think that was smart for you to seek out that type of solution because it, it makes the adoption of it a lot easier for the customer. So maybe tell us a little bit about what that first product is, what is it that it does and, why is it so, not invasive?
Neil Horne:
Well, sure, Dan., I think the first solution and the first product we've got, we call the Maximizer Eco Clamp. And so that's using the power of magnets to deliver bottom line savings to companies and lower emissions. And so, we know that this is the grand topic of our time, which is how can we leave our children and our children's children a better world?
And so a big part of that is what can we do within our own businesses to lower emissions? But also, just speaking broadly, it's how do we lower costs? Everything is more expensive. How do you lower maintenance costs, how do you extend the life of your equipment and how do you lower your gas or your fossil fuel costs?
So we know across North America there is a, you know, obviously a massive amount of natural gas use, but also in specific areas there's propane use for power, there's diesel, there is, you know, bunker oil, you name it,being used to power all sorts of things. And so, what we offer is a solution that goes across industry and across fuel type to deliver that savings and what that is, and I mean it looks very simply as we're here looking.
This is for a small 1-inch pipe, but this is polarized magnet technology. And if you see me, I'm pushing here together, trying to get them together. But what these do is these wrap around a fuel pipe right before combustion. And what it's basically meant to do is align the oxygen molecules that are all within, within gas moving to create flame, to create heat.
And so if you can better align the oxygen molecule into combustion, you get a cleaner burn of fuel, so you get less particulate up the flue and out into the, atmosphere. So you've got a cleaner, a cleaner burn of fuel, a higher rate of heat for the same amount of energy used.
And so I like, you know, everyone always likes to flop. How do you think about energy? And so I either like to think for the same amount of energy you get a higher heat or for, you know, for less energy needed, you can get the same amount of heat.
And so this works for just about any industry that's using a significant amount of heat. So boilers, furnaces, air handlers, large, dryers or heaters. So anything from brick making where you're, you know, kiln, you're running a kiln or asphalt, or you're running a multi, you know, multi-unit residential building, a high rise,even like think about a university residence where everybody is using hot water for heat showers, they're using hot water for heating their home or heating the unit.
Something to, you know, fire something up to a boil. All of those applications use a ton of energy across north. I mean we'll just use North America as the example. As I know that's, that's your business model too. And so when you think about how much, you know, even 5 to 15% savings on the heat side is across all the buildings that are being used, I mean this is a significant easy clamp on savings.
So you talked about noninvasive, Dan. Best part about this, you don't turn anything off while we install. So you can actually install a series of collars on a pipe and watch the heat change, watch the flame even change in some cases. Well, your system is running. So you know, number one, that it's safe.
Number two, you haven't had to plug it in. So you're not using other power to save power. And because there are no moving parts, you're not having to maintain this product. So we, you know, could, could really guarantee this. I mean we say 25 years, but the truth of it is this will last the entire life of your building as long as you've got those gas pipes on your building.
And if you change the size of pipe, well, we can help you with changing the size. But in reality, that's, that's the basis of this is aligning oxygen molecules for a better combustion.
Dan Roberge:
And it seems like such a simple solution. Almost like, I mean every unit should just come with, makes sense. And when you understand, you know, chemistry and oxygen and the way things work, this, this is a simple solution. You mentioned different size pipes so you can accommodate different size collars.
, I guess is how it works. Is there a difference in the magnet itself or how does that work for the different size?
Neil Horne:
No, I mean the magnet technology is the same., so for example, you've got two contact points here on a fairly small pipe. As you get to a larger, for example say a 4-inch pipe, you might have 3 or 4 contact points on each side to make sure you've Got enough magnet sort of surrounding the pipe.
But the overall premise is the exact same. And I think where this really came from wasn't actually even the energy savings, which is now our, probably our best-selling point. But it was if you, if you allow a better cleaner burn through your machinery, you lower the maintenance cost and you extend the life of equipment.
And so I like to think about, you know, some people want to buy for the environmental, some people want to buy for the cost savings, and some people want to buy for just the pure fact that if you better control your maintenance costs, like that's a significant number. I mean we, I know you're in the, you know, in the multi residential and large space with maintenance care and multiple buildings.
You know, one of these new heating systems for any number of these buildings is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so if you can extend that life of that equipment, even 20%, that has already paid for this, regardless of energy savings.
Dan Roberge:
Yeah, exactly. That's one of the biggest costs of facility maintenance,is the replacement of equipment., and so the longer you can make a piece of equipment last and replace it less often over the lifespan of the building, the, you know, the more efficient you're running your building.
And so, and the reason that's extending the life of the asset is because you're getting more, effective. The machine's not working hard, as hard as it needs to. It's cleaner in a sense. Like do you, do you have some metrics, let's say that actually, show how it impacts the piece of equipment?
Neil Horne:
Yes, we do. And so in studies, and it's gone through sort of extensive testing in the states, as you put a cleaner, like I like to use the analogy, you know, putting premium fuel in your car or using, you know, aviation fuel in a jet. You know, you don't want a jet to fall from the sky.
So it's using sort of the top, top premium fuel to make sure every part has the least amount of wear and tear on it. And that is sort of the same premise here is if you put, you know, a good combustion through all of your parts, there's less wear and tear.
You know, you put good, good food in your body, you feel better for the long term. This is that same piece because the quality of gas into any location is variable. And so, you know, savings, you know, direct, you know, are we saving 20% on every single piece of equipment?
No. In some cases could you save 30%? Yes. In some cases, is it 6%? Yes. And that's all related to age of equipment, age of pipes, quality of gas, quality of the actual burner, un. Unit and age of it. And so the key here is long term savings because you're not having to replace or maintain the equipment.
We do still try and keep that ROI in the two-year range, two and a half year range the most. But this is lasting 99 years in a building. So let's just be a little looser on that, return on investment and study.
Dan Roberge:
Yeah, exactly. Most people would say, okay, what's my ROI on this? And they're looking short term. But the fact that these colors don't wear, obviously if there's abuse to it or there's outside,if you're putting them outside in any way and there could be some temperature, weather related usage or wear on them,but the concept is that they'll last forever and basically you're getting those savings as long as you have those on there.
So now you mentioned you might need to put more than one on the pipe. So how does that work? Like how you determine that factor of how much you need?
Neil Horne:
Well, we determine that three, ways. So one is your total expenditure on gas. So you know, you get up between, you know, from 100,000 to a million dollars on a piece of equipment. You know, in some cases, in an apartment building, for example, let's say you're spending $150,000 in heating and gas boiler costs.
We want to make sure that we are as efficient as possible with how many callers we're putting on and getting that payback. Right. Second factor, you know, we're not just going to stack up callers from here to the moon to say, hey, we want to make sure that payback fits.
Right. The second is we look at the BTU rating of the pieces of equipment, so the make and model. And so for the amount of BTUs being pushed through, what is the right mix of collars to make sure that, you know, combustion is as efficient as possible. And so, you know, on your average, and I'll use apartment high rise in that $100,000 range, usually it works out to about 6 collars per pipe.
6 to 8 is usually sort of. In that range is what we found to be sort of the best range of efficiency of savings and efficiency on cost to the final property, ownership group. So we try and find that mix thereof, you know, I think you'll, you know, you'd probably find it too in your business where in this case probably 80% of their costs of heating are probably coming from 50% of their combustion sites.
And so we like to have A conversation with all manufacturers or property owners and say, okay, walk us through your operation. Do you have auxiliary units that are just sitting there to j p in if something breaks down? Do we need to treat that because it's just hopping on for maintenance purposes or is everything running 24/7 all the time and let's make sure to cover all our bases.
Dan Roberge:
Yeah. So you're on the lookout for their particular building, plan and, effectiveness at that particular building. Do you do all that remotely? Do you have to go on site? How does the process start from if a customer's interest?
Neil Horne:
Well, what's great about this product in particular and the stuff that goes on pipes is number one, it can be installed by property management teams, H vac teams, plumbing teams, and that can all be done remotely. So we operate out of Ontario, but you know, currently we just walk through an installation in Alberta.
So what that involves is a little bit of a phone call and a bit of trading of information and, and in some cases companies, have had an energy audit already performed in their building. And I'm going to use buildings just for an example for today. I mean whether it's a manufacturing facility a little bit different.
But usually there's been some information gathered which we can kind of quickly figure out the BTU and the model and make a model number of boilers or air handlers and make a quick estimate. The second thing we do like is for a property management team to be on site and just do a last check on the size of the pipe because obviously we ship collars and they're heavy to ship.
Like they're not a, they're not light, they're heavy magnets. And so we like to make sure we're shipping the exact right number and size., but once they're there, we've done zoom installations,we've done the installations ourselves, we've worked with third parties to do the installation., and because you don't have to shut any machinery off, there's certainly an ease of, you know, as soon as you shut something off in a building people get, get worried.
I mean we do have other products where we do that on the plumbing side, but for this in particular it's a great, I guess, low trust product to start with and say hey guys, we don't have to turn anything off. You're going to be able to see the flame change.
We're going to then get your H vac team to balance your system again. And I like to use the layman terms of turning everything back down a little bit., but really, it's balancing your system to reflect the new amount of heat coming through your system.
Dan Roberge:
Yeah, that's the important part. Right. So once you put that on, you just don't leave everything the same because it was, it's now running hot. Exactly. It was compensating for the, for the previous method. And so in the,in that process of installation, like what, what makes it, you know, whereas let's say I go, oh, this is a great idea, I'm going to go to Amazon, buy a bunch of magnets and stick that onto my pipe.
What's the difference in the product and the technology behind the actual collar and why it's effective?
Neil Horne:
Well, this is years of testing and we actually went to the actual manufacturer and patent holder of this technology who have spent the time and testing,and have the track record. And so they purely act on this as a manufacturer and support system to us. And so, yeah, you can go try and go to Walmart and buy some magnets that you would use to pick up the nails in your garage and see if anything happens.
, and I'd say I wish you luck. And I think like most products where there is good thought and research behind them, that you've got a feeling of safety with that. Right. I mean, it's not that we're just going willy nilly and dropping things, onto buildings. You know, we understand that this is a significant investment that a property owner has made into their equipment to keep, you know, and I'm going to use the example of an apartment building, right?
Like you've got the lives of, you know, 200 different people in your building. You don't want the heat to go off. So you've got to have spent some time on the research to say, hey, what we're putting on is going to keep that system running better for the winter, winter months as opposed to, as opposed to not.
Dan Roberge:
Yeah, it's tested, it's been calibrated for their particular case like you mentioned. So it definitely is something that you can trust that it will make better and not worse., and so what's the best advice you can give to,somebody who's interested and wants to actually know what their savings have been like?
What would you say they should do before, before they get the callers, while they have the callers on to compare the ROI specifically? Is there anything they can do that you can think of?
Neil Horne:
Absolutely., so one, the main test we would do, which is sort of the standard in the industry, is called degree day leveling. And what that means is you're trying to compare apples to apples on heating days throughout the winter. We'll use in a lot of cases, hey, it doesn't matter if it's winter.
If you're running a commercial laundry, you're running laundry every single day and you're heating the water. But let's use that for an example. And so with that we use the exact location and there is a formula, that's out there through national energy testing that allows you to say, hey, the winter was different this year.
So what is the, how do we compare year over year what the that average temperature would be and then what was the gas usage? And so given that your occupancy rate for example in a building was the same and given that we have leveled out the degree days of heating needed, then what are the savings year over year?
And that's sort of the simple way to walk through it. And so in most cases people are fairly open about what they spend on heat heating costs or electrical costs, or gas costs because usually we're all angry about it. So people like to complain and tell you what they're spending and hey, if you could find a way to save this that would be great.
It always comes back to actually writing the check to get those savings., and so we've tried to make that even easier on people too and have teamed up with ah, a company called NPowered to deliver financing too is to say we get it, it's going to pay back really quickly compared to a lot of other investments.
But we recognize that hey, you're in a fixed, you know, revenue stream and so how can we move this outside of your regular financing and put something in place that, that allows you to stay at least cash flow neutral or cash flow positive through the whole project.
Dan Roberge:
And you will eventually get those savings beyond the investment that you've put on put into it. So it seems like a no brainer to me and it's so, so easy to do as far as, measuring the pipe and you know, discussing what their heating situation is with you and then just kind of put, you know, having them shipped in and put them on, you know, and it just seems like a no brainer.
Neil Horne:
This is why we're talking to you to reach that larger audience to say guys, this is a no brainer. This is, this is something you can easily do and complement other things you're already working on to save money or to save you know, on costs or to do better for the environment.
Right. Like this is a complementary product.
Dan Roberge:
For sure, like there's, there's other solutions to be had and look forward to talking to you about those as well. And so where can people find information on, on these colors and, and how to order them and talk to you? Where do they go to get that information?
Neil Horne:
They would go to info. They can either send an email to info@goldleafenergy.com they, can go to our website goldleafenergy.com and, I mean my name is Neil Horne., I'm listed on there as well. We've got a, a 1-800 number but also, just direct phone line can phone it in.
But, happy to arrange and work with whether it's property ownership groups or property managers or to work with people who run factories, commercial laundries, asphalt plants. What's really nice is you've got a product here that can cross so many industries. So where people are concerned about their fuel costs of any kind. Let's talk.
Dan Roberge:
Yeah, great, great way to end this. And I look forward to continuing to talking to you about future, other energy-saving solutions. But thanks for joining today. Let's talk again soon.
Neil Horne:
Okay, sounds great Dan, thanks very much.
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